Reality Check #2

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Reality Check #2

Postby LisaG » Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:03 pm

This is a much milder reality check than what Suzie had last week, but still very real to us. In the speech class that I teach 2x per month there are 2 brothers that are newly hsing, they are 11 and 13. They were just brought home from ps last year. A little background - our ds is a bit on the so-called "nerdy" side due to his passion for all things computer. Software, hardware, you name it, he will discuss it eagerly. He, along with most of the other kids in the class, also really gets into the activities we do in class, even the goofy, acting type things. They unashamedly have a blast with it, and it's so fun! Until we had these 2 boys in our class I had forgotten that those kinds of activities were just not "cool" to be seen doing. Anyway, last week I had the kids count off by 4s to get into groups for their next assignment. The younger of the 2 formerly ps'ed brothers had the same # as my ds and one of ds's friends, also a fanatical computer kid and very expressive. When he found out he was going to be with them he turned to his brother and sneered "Oh great, I'm with THEM!" then asked me "Can I change groups?" Of course Mama Bear in me wanted to rip his head off, but I just calmly said "No, you have to stick with your group." Besides the fact that he was referring to MY ds :anger , it really saddens me to see how ps brings such INtolerance of different personalities/interests and how so many of the dch going there end up suppressing their God-given talents and nature in the name of Cool. :sad Would they have been the kids waiting for ds after school so they could bury his face in the mud? Or tormented him so badly on the playground that he wished he were dead?

Well, it sure gives more fuel to my passion for hsing! We already knew we were doing the right thing for ds, but I sure hate to see other kids so warped by the whole institutionalized setting. It took me years to fix my thinking!
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Re: Reality Check #2

Postby mom2one » Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:23 pm

That truely is sad LisaG. :sigh
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Re: Reality Check #2

Postby Relinda » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:26 pm

It is very sad behavior and what's worse is that so many PS parents don't see it!!! I suppose maybe they are blinded a bit because they are around it all the time???? To me, it is very obvious after being with down-home HS kids, who feel free and confident to be "'who they are" and then to see a bunch of PS kids acting all "cool" 8-)

Very sad! :sad
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Re: Reality Check #2

Postby Mingo » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:31 pm

You hit a nail on it's head there, Lisa.

We had this discussion tonight regarding our "old" church and our "new" church. An acquaintance from the old church told me she would like to try out the church we're attending now, except that her 12yo dd wouldn't want to because the Sunday school class she was in was comprised of all her PS friends.

Her 'sweet little dd' totally dissed my dd the last two years were were at that church - after being friends with her for the first four! And that particular group of girls epitomize all that can be catty, gossipy, disrespectful, and "too cool" about 12yo girls.

One thing we said, however, is that the pastor at our new church would NOT allow such behavior from any group. And we don't see it there at all with the children (all PS but ours) that we have in the Sunday school.

Who says the PS can "socialize" our children again? Sorry, I'm not mounting my :soapbox
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Re: Reality Check #2

Postby Melissa » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:43 pm

The very idea that children need ps so that they can be socialized by other children their own age-- lacks logic. Like the blind leading the blind.
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Re: Reality Check #2

Postby MeAmy » Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:52 am

Maybe this is beside the point...but aren't you a little surprised that the kid even said this within hearing of you, and then had the bad manners to ask you if he could change groups? It's just surprising to me how disrespectful kids are in front of adults, if nothing else. It really says something.
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Re: Reality Check #2

Postby Queen Amidala » Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:01 am

It's just surprising to me how disrespectful kids are in front of adults, if nothing else. It really says something.

We have basically sworn off birthday parties for our public school friends, for this very reason. We went to one last year where one child *screamed* out, "Hey, we want cake and ice cream now!" Then all the other kids started chanting "Ice cream! Ice cream!" All the parents stood around and nervously laughed. My DS had been seated with the other kids for a photo, but got up and walked over to me. Later the mom called to ask why DS hadn't enjoyed the party! I told her he had enjoyed the party. So she then asked why he wasn't chanting like the other kids. I decided NOT to tell her that DS said the other kids were being rude and disrespectful. She really didn't need a 7-year-old pointing that out to her!


The very idea that children need ps so that they can be socialized by other children their own age-- lacks logic.

This was a huge conversation w/my father-in-law when he was in town...
He told me that he never questioned that I could homeschool the academics, but that he was very worried about "The Socialization."
"But I can tell that your son gets along well with other people," my father-in-law told me.
So I went off on my soapbox "socialization" rant...

Just why do we think putting children with ONLY same-age peers is socialization? With neighborhood schools, they are going to school not only with children their same age, but also their same socio-economic background. And in the city, they are also going to school with children of their same race. (Segregation is alive and thriving in the urban south.)
I remember my aunt telling me that she was worried about my son not being exposed to children with disabilities if he wasn't in public school. I still can't wrap my mind around that comment!
My son is out and about with children and adults of all ages. He attends homeschool classes and camps and field trips and park days with children from ALL walks of life -- all ethnic backgrounds, all economic backgrounds. He knows children will all sorts of 'special needs' and disabilities. And the ironic thing is -- he doesn't care!!!
Funny store -- DS has a (male) friend that has a different skin color than we do. This friend also has a very visible birth defect - and happens to have long hair! What did DS ask me about??? Not skin color. Not the birth defect. But the fact that this boy has long hair!!! :rotfl
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Re: Reality Check #2

Postby Mingo » Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:15 pm

OK, you brought up the PS birthday party, so I'll go here.

We went to one for MY friend's 9yo dd a few weeks ago. Now, M and DD don't really *have* a relationship, outside of the fact that their mom's have been friends for 20+ years. So, it's just a social gathering. Interestingly, from this once-a-year event, DD likes some of M's cousins! LOL!

Now, my friend HAD to move to the "best" school district in this part of the state. Nothing else would do. From the outside looking in, however, this is the district that is the LEAST mixed in any sense, economically upper-middle class (at the least), and has a horrendous record of some really nasty stuff going on - aside from your general drug use, teen pgs, etc. Academically, however, it's tops. And they have GREAT stuff.

So, at this party, one of M's friends SAYS TO MY FRIEND (the mother), "This party is boring. Can I call my mom to go home?" :yikes

Same girl also instigates a little "bathroom chat" with two others from the party, where they were snarking around about the other attendees. And, according to Kate, dissing her and another little girl who didn't go to their school.

Friend has said, "No more birthday parties" because of this. We'll see. She was definitely OVER it after that one comment. And I hope she reconsiders her daughter's friends, too, in light of this.
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Re: Reality Check #2

Postby Queen Amidala » Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:48 pm

From the outside looking in, however, this is the district that is the LEAST mixed in any sense, economically upper-middle class (at the least), and has a horrendous record of some really nasty stuff going on - aside from your general drug use, teen pgs, etc. Academically, however, it's tops. And they have GREAT stuff.

You just described our school...
Upper middle class. Ethnically not mixed at all. (Private schools ARE ethnically mixed. Non-Caucasians that can afford to live here attend private schools.)
Yup - we have some real, real nasty stuff going on.
S*xual hazing... arson... the entire golf team was charged with destroying the private golf course that allowed them free practice... oh, and the 'normal' drug use and teen pregnancy that everyone just brushes aside.
The police actually broke up two "gangs" of teenage boys that were trying to 'one up' each other with the amount of stuff they could steal and get away with. Thankfully, they were stupider than a rock and started openly bragging about their thefts and were soon caught. Our mayor went on the record as saying, "These are GOOD kids from GOOD homes, they were just bored..." Please!
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Re: Reality Check #2

Postby Shauna » Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:04 pm

The other day at my son's homeschool PE class, I was sitting there watching about 25 HS kids all arriving for the class. There were mismatched clothes, some high water pants, hair sticking up, chubby kids, small kids, etc. Oh, and there was my son having an imaginary lightsaber battle. You know, basically a lot of these kids would definitely be the type to be picked on in school. I just sat there and marveled at how beautiful it was. No one mentions a thing about how each other looks, no one is made fun of, they all get along...etc. It just reinforced my belief in the greatness of homeschooling. I love those moments.
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Re: Reality Check #2

Postby Relinda » Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:05 pm

Queen Amidala wrote:
Our mayor went on the record as saying, "These are GOOD kids from GOOD homes, they were just bored..." Please!

:hmmm Interesting!!! When MY son gets bored, he has to vacuum, dust and scrub the toilets!!! :rotfl
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Re: Reality Check #2

Postby OKGal » Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:45 pm

Shauna wrote:The other day at my son's homeschool PE class, I was sitting there watching about 25 HS kids all arriving for the class. There were mismatched clothes, some high water pants, hair sticking up, chubby kids, small kids, etc. Oh, and there was my son having an imaginary lightsaber battle. You know, basically a lot of these kids would definitely be the type to be picked on in school. I just sat there and marveled at how beautiful it was. No one mentions a thing about how each other looks, no one is made fun of, they all get along...etc. It just reinforced my belief in the greatness of homeschooling. I love those moments.


:thumbsup Now that's true socialization.
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Re: Reality Check #2

Postby Queen Amidala » Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:07 pm

Interesting!!! When MY son gets bored, he has to vacuum, dust and scrub the toilets!!!

:rotfl
That's funny. It is actually a running joke in our house that "if DS is bored or misbehaves, he has to wipe down all the baseboards... funny how he is NEVER bored and seldom misbehaves. I wish he would misbehave more so I could have cleaner baseboards..." :hmmm

Our neighbor asked me once why I don't believe in spanking. I said, "Because hard physical labor is the perfect punishment -- it gives them time to think about what they did AND I get part of my house cleaned!"

On an interesting side note.
The day that quote/article ran in the paper, they also ran another article about a group of teenage boys that decided to spend a week hiking around a very large lake in our area. I wondered if the newspaper editor ran both articles side-by-side on purpose... :hmmm Several people wrote letters to the editors re: the irony...
Bored teens breaking into people's homes and stealing from them and setting cars on fires... :mad
Vs bored teens hiking around a lake in 100 degrees temps, sleeping out under the stars, battling the elements and the mosquitoes... :thumbsup

You know, basically a lot of these kids would definitely be the type to be picked on in school. I just sat there and marveled at how beautiful it was. No one mentions a thing about how each other looks, no one is made fun of, they all get along...etc. It just reinforced my belief in the greatness of homeschooling. I love those moments.

We have had so many wonderful homeschool moments like that - just an awesome mix of quirky kids all getting along and playing happily together.
(Too bad they aren't socialized, huh?! ;) )
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Re: Reality Check #2

Postby LisaG » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:57 pm

Queen Amidala wrote:"Because hard physical labor is the perfect punishment -- it gives them time to think about what they did AND I get part of my house cleaned!"
YES, it IS perfect! I really think boys these days don't get enough physical labor for their own well-being. There are many days I wished we had a big cattle ranch or something so ds would have to go out & get all pooped out every day. Oh well, I have to find other creative ways to get the labor in.

Queen Amidala wrote: an awesome mix of quirky kids all getting along and playing happily together.
I agree, it IS beautiful and how I envision the body of Christ. All of us quirky people working together, loving each other, and praising God for making us all so unique. That's how our speech class HAS been until now. We started on a "war path" at bible study tonight praying for those 2 boys.

I didn't even THINK of the disrespectful aspect of it - probably 'cuz I was too mad and sad! But yes, another angle to it that is so sad and a real eye-opener.
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Re: Reality Check #2

Postby jennifer » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:02 pm

I agree with those who have mentioned that public schooled/private school kids tend to form cliques. My dd will not attend the junior high group at church because if you don't attend the very expensive private school or the highly rated public school they won't talk to you. She has tried to be friendly, even with girls she used to be friends with when they were younger but they have no interest in anyone outside their group. It's too bad. On the other hand, we can go to park day with a home school group and all ages and types seem to mix for the most part.
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Re: Reality Check #2

Postby Queen Amidala » Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:22 am

On the other hand, we can go to park day with a home school group and all ages and types seem to mix for the most part.

I was talking with DH the other night and commented to him how much MORE socialization DS gets BECAUSE he is homeschooled. DS is constantly thrown into new social settings day in and day out and he has to 'find his way' with a different group of people every time. We go to art class and he knows X number of kids... We go to zoology and he knows X number of kids, some from art/some not... We go on a field trip and he knows X number of kids, some from art/some from zoology/some not... And on and on. Each and every place we go, there is a different mix of kids. We never know who we might know and who we will be meeting for the first time. I know - as an adult - homeschooling has really forced me to step outside my comfort level and be more outgoing. So I can't imagine what it does for my DS. Now DS does ask me going in, "Will I know anyone here?" He's fine either way, but he does like to know in advance. Sometimes we just don't know. We may go on a field trip and not know anyone. We may go on a field trip and know a dozen people. We may go to the park and we know a dozen kids, but then I find DS off playing with the new kid...
Then let's not forget the "adult" socialization, like when DS visits his dad at the office and goes around talking with everyone (which shocked the socks off my FIL recently!)
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Re: Reality Check #2

Postby Mingo » Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:21 pm

DS visits his dad at the office and goes around talking with everyone


That ability to talk to adults has been a 'cue' to several that Dd is homeschooled. Our neighbor continually expresses surprise that Dd can and will chat with her, like any other "adult." Guess her granddaughters aren't so equipped...
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Re: Reality Check #2

Postby Donna C » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:48 pm

Yup, the Saga of the Socialization Myth.

One thing I wanted to share... when Mike was about 10 or so, he went to church summer camp. A friend (and in our home group at the time) sent her grandson. He didn't go to our church at all, and I'm not sure how old he was... but he was handicapped (had to use crutches to walk), Where the camp was (Riverbend Baptist Encampment in Glen Rose) made the rock/stone/gravel paths to everything can be hard work with normal balance and walking abilities. But with crutches, wow. Mike went (I did not go to help, so he was on his own.) When they got back, one of the leaders came to me and told me how Mike did.

The boy with the crutches was always the last person to make it to the cafeteria or to the next building or outside area for an activity. Mike always held back and walked with him, engaged him in conversation, was never put off by his disability, etc. He was the ONLY child to do that... Almost makes me cry, 'cause that's the way it's supposed to be. Would have been nice to have a small crowd walking with crutches boy where ever they were going.

There is so much intolerance and prejudice in kids who go to public school. And they are soooo vicious! Attacking the weaker or different in the group. ( :hmmm Hmm, there's a correlation with the animal kingdom there, but I can't remember the species.) Now I know that's a generalization--I would have been the kid holding back so a new person to camp who didn't know anyone didn't have to be alone. But the cliques and the idea that the younger grades are inferior and the older grades are "cool" and to be emulated, and how that expands to away from school. Suddenly younger siblings are pests and there is no love lost between the two. The disrespect they give to adults who aren't perceived as "the expert" (e.g. their teacher, sometimes). Their parents know "nothing," and so on....

Then you see a hs'd kid and more than likely (a generalization also) he/she don't see differences, or if he does, he respects and likes them despite it (because we're all different). He can play with both younger children and older children, can speak intelligently to an adult (with respect).

Another memory... Mike & I were at the zoo. He was like 6 or 7, I think, definitely in the begining age for homeschooling. Somehow a group of teenagers or young adults, joined us at our table in the café. Mike was then at the "germs and billions and billions" stage. He was ponitificating on how you have to be careful eating on the table because unseen there were billions and billions of germs on the table. The group were impressed and couldn't get over how young and knowledgable. One of them said (I think, it's been 14 years! LOL), "I didn't learn that in school until I was in the __ grade!" (Seems like they said 7th grade or one of the older grades, but I could be wrong.) He had no problem talking to these "big kids", no shyness, nothing. LOL These teenagers might have been seniors or something like that.

Now, that's the way people (children and adults) should act and so often don't even think about it.
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